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Haywood from Greenville writes:
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11/3/2005 4:13:59 PM
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| Buck up Andrew. Nobody likes a crybaby. |
Andrew from Clemson, SC writes:
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11/3/2005 1:15:43 PM
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| Haywood wouldn't be simplifying and generalizing would he? No, not the Haywood that we know has the mind can handle the world of complexity without such childish devices. |
Andrew from Clemson, SC writes:
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11/3/2005 12:59:12 PM
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Haywood,
Are you sleep posting? When did I say "I hate the gummit"? I know there are a lot of government employees who AREN'T politicians. Are you now forgetting that I made a distinction between the two? Or, is there no distinction? So, is "the government" the politicians and all its employees, or is it all of US? Both equally? neither?
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Andrew from Clemson, SC writes:
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11/3/2005 12:53:39 PM
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| Haywood hath proclaimed they are, so it seems we are at an impasse. |
Haywood from Greenville writes:
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11/3/2005 11:37:16 AM
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"I'm not. Government is NOT "US." That is just as silly a fantasy as believing they are a completely different race, and maybe more dangerous. Government is an entity. Similar to GE, Microsoft and Wal-Mart, but with important differences."
Ah now we get to the core of the problem. Andrew doesn't live in our time and space Vic. The vast majority of the government are people who are not even politicians. They're your neighbors. This whole "I hate the gummit" stuff is childish nonsense.
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Haywood from Greenville writes:
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11/3/2005 11:34:18 AM
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"Well, no, they're not."
Oh okay. Andrew hath proclaimed it. It must be true. Thanks for the insight Andrew.
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Vic from Simpsonville writes:
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11/3/2005 11:00:49 AM
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I'll play lawyer and answer a question with a question: If we are so locked out of the process, then what's the rationale behind this fairy tale libertarian devotion to taking federal power and money and transferring them [back] to the states? If we cannot affect meaningful change, why cling to the fantasy that this can happen?
Or, assuming we can somehow reconcile those two opposing notions, what makes us think that shift of influence from one batch of crooks to the another would mean anything to us? |
Andrew from Clemson, SC writes:
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11/3/2005 10:44:04 AM
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I wonder, Vic. How much influence do you have over "your" government? Since it's you and all. How have you proved your point to yourself in your life?
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Andrew from Clemson, SC writes:
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11/3/2005 10:42:57 AM
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Vic from Simpsonville writes:
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11/3/2005 10:22:17 AM
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Andrew from Clemson, SC writes:
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11/3/2005 10:00:17 AM
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"Quit speaking of "government" as if it is some insular entity that exists separately and autonomously outside of time and space."
Vic,
I'm not. Government is NOT "US." That is just as silly a fantasy as believing they are a completely different race, and maybe more dangerous. Government is an entity. Similar to GE, Microsoft and Wal-Mart, but with important differences.
Sure, if we spend enough time and money to rally enough like-minded people we might be able to make minor changes to the government (although still not likely as Haywood and Mike and a lot of true conservatives and libertarians learned in '04). But if you believe we all share in "government" equally, then it is you who are dealing in vague concepts and not reality. Not I.
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1 from Defunct writes:
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11/3/2005 9:41:43 AM
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"They're not? Do they spring from test tubes in some secret, maniacal lab, somewhere? Are they birthed from foul, stagnant mud like orcs? Have they just been around for millenia, like cockroaches?" - Vic
Of course they are Vic, they all evolved from the same pile of pond sludge. ;-)
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Vic from Simpsonville writes:
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11/3/2005 9:40:14 AM
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They're not? Do they spring from test tubes in some secret, maniacal lab, somewhere? Are they birthed from foul, stagnant mud like orcs? Have they just been around for millenia, like cockroaches?
They are of the same type and model as everyone else, and they are put (and kept) in office by US. They are not some mysterious class of beings who exist outside of our reality, however appealing and accurate that notion may seem to be. They are US, like the rest of government. If WE don't like it, then WE should change it. It is up to US.
Quit speaking of "government" as if it is some insular entity that exists separately and autonomously outside of time and space. |
Andrew from Clemson, SC writes:
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11/3/2005 9:25:18 AM
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"I already told you how it was the same"
Well, no you didn't.
Politicians are made up of the same group of people.
Well, no, they're not.
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Haywood from Greenville writes:
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11/2/2005 12:08:59 PM
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| Yes I'm serious. I already told you how it was the same, so why do you think it's different? |
Andrew from Clemson, SC writes:
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11/2/2005 8:51:10 AM
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| How is it the same? Are you serious? |
Haywood from Greenville writes:
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11/2/2005 7:59:12 AM
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"Which, is very different from making blanket generalizations about people born of various races or lifestyle choices that do not affect me directly."
How is it different? Politicians are made up of the same group of people.
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Andrew from Clemson, SC writes:
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11/2/2005 7:39:15 AM
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Yes, it does narrow it down. Basically, keep as much power over your life to yourself as you can.
And I usually try to keep my griping and stereotyping focused on the politicians. Which, is very different from making blanket generalizations about people born of various races or lifestyle choices that do not affect me directly.
And about the only stereotype I make of politicians is one that generally true, they are generally people who choose to seek power and choose to take what I have had to trade for.
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Haywood from Greenville writes:
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11/1/2005 9:00:25 PM
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| That would make sense if you had actually ever seen me gripe about corporate greed. |
Joe from Edisto Island writes:
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11/1/2005 8:18:19 PM
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| Every time you Libs gripe about the corporate greed all you're doing is stereotyping a large group of people. It's no different than making comments about "the blacks" or "the Mexicans" or "the queers". |
Haywood from Greenville writes:
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11/1/2005 5:26:11 PM
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| Every time you guys gripe about the "gummit" all you're doing is stereotyping a large group of people. It's no different than making comments about "the blacks" or "the Mexicans" or "the queers". |
Joe from Edisto Island writes:
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11/1/2005 1:46:21 PM
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"Yeah, I'm saying I don't trust the government or the corporations to run things." - Andrew
In most cases, you can pick and choose which corporations you choose to deal with.
Also in most cases, you have no choice in dealing with "gummit".
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Vic from Simpsonville writes:
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11/1/2005 9:54:27 AM
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| Well, that narrows it down . . . . |
Andrew from Clemson, SC writes:
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11/1/2005 9:13:12 AM
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| Yeah, I'm saying I don't trust the government or the corporations to run things. |
Joe from Edisto Island writes:
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11/1/2005 9:02:22 AM
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For years, Microsoft's Bill Gates ignored Washington and politics in general. But after the previous administration targeted his company for "monopolistic" tendencies, he quickly learned that he needed to play the game of funding both political parties and having a 'hired gun' (lobbyist firm) on "K" Street to protect his interests from the elected official power monger parasites.
It's my understanding that instead of hiring a lobby firm in Washington... he bought one... which is typical Gates... why rent one when you can own it.
:- )
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Andrew from Clemson, SC writes:
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10/31/2005 12:26:17 PM
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| I've pretty much stopped calling what I support "capitalism," making the distinction between that and the free market. But "corporatism" works. |
Doug from Columbia writes:
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10/31/2005 9:48:34 AM
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Exactly.
I support capitalism, but not corporatism--two very different things.
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Andrew from Clemson, SC writes:
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10/28/2005 2:41:01 PM
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"Wal-Mart maintains that it already pays its employees more than the minimum wage, so Wal-Mart probably wonít be affected by a minimum wage increase. "
Correct, I was going to make that comment when I read that story.
"If that's the case, itís despicable, but genius, on the part of Wal-Mart."
Right on! Just ask yourself, what is the downside for Wal-Mart in making such a demand of the government?
Higher minimum wage will also make it harder for smaller stores to hire unproven workers, making it more likely that they have to ask for a job at Wal-Mart, who can then hire them at minimum wage. They are trying to close the loop. When Wal-Mart has locked up the competition, the job market, and the economy for the lower class, well, then they ARE the government.
This is another example of when corporations are no friend to freedom.
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