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June 3, 2006 | South Carolina Headlines

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To Tip Or Not To Tip
Regina from Vienna, LCN writes:
9/20/2005 11:54:32 PM
Canadians and other foreigners do not normally tip; this is mostly because the tips are already added in to their bill no matter how large or small the party. They receive less enthusiastic service because wait staff knows that they are not likely to tip.

I don't know about Canada, I can't remember if tipping was customary on my travels there years ago or not...but throughout Europe one simply does not tip other than leaving, perhaps, the loose coins received in the change when the bill is paid. The reason is simple - waiters and waitresses are paid a living wage! The tip is not "added" into the bill, it is already part of the menu pricing.

[ reply| Previous in thread ]
Chuck from Greenville writes:
9/20/2005 1:04:36 PM
Doug from Columbia writes:
9/20/2005 9:51:05 AM

My main issue here is stopping government from putting ordinances into place that force consumers to tip, no matter the level of service they receive.

We can discuss our good and bad experiences all day long, but that has nothing to do with the task at hand. {UNQUOTE}

Your main issue???? The task at hand !!!! ????Your article is entitled "To Tip or Not to Tip"

Seems to me that is the main issue, and therefore you have no excuse for not answering my questions, which is, What is your definition of bad service, and what is your definition of good service?

[ reply| Previous in thread ]
Chuck from Greenville writes:
9/20/2005 11:49:42 AM
OK, Doug, you did give a couple of examples. My mistake, my bad.

I've never seen such behavior, myself, and find it hard to believe that you have seen such.

[ reply| Previous in thread ]
Chuck from Greenville writes:
9/20/2005 11:46:04 AM
Doug from Columbia writes:
9/20/2005 9:51:05 AM

I actually gave a couple of examples of unacceptable wait staff behavior that I have witnessed, near the end of the article, but it doesn't matter.EDITED QUOTE. {END QUOTE}

No, Doug, go back and read the article, and you find that you did NOT "actually give a couple of examples...." Don't you even remember what you wrote? Sheesh.

You still did not answer my question. Why am I not surprised?

I'm left to believe two possibilities: ONE, that I have never seen outstanding service, or TWO, that I have never seen bad service, (with only the rare exception).

I can't imagine what the vast, vast majority of the waitpersons I have seen could have done more of, or better, so as to deserve the accolade of OUTSTANDING SERVICE.

[ reply| Previous in thread ]
Doug from Columbia writes:
9/20/2005 9:51:05 AM
Why did I write the article? Seriously, Chuck, did you even read it before joining this discussion?

Here is the very first paragraph of the article for the answer to your question:

"Recently, there has been a lot of discussion on national talk radio shows about the move to automatically add a gratuity (tip) to the final price of a meal purchased in a restaurant. It seems that some folks in the hospitality industry feel that you should be forced to leave a tip, regardless of the level of service you receive."

I actually gave a couple of examples of unacceptable wait staff behavior that I have witnessed, near the end of the article, but it doesn't matter. My main issue here is stopping government from putting ordinances into place that force consumers to tip, no matter the level of service they receive.

We can discuss our good and bad experiences all day long, but that has nothing to do with the task at hand.

[ reply| Previous in thread ]
Chuck from Greenville writes:
9/19/2005 4:57:08 PM
Geez, Doug ! I asked a simple question, and you complicated it so badly that there is no semblance of reason or ability to read and comprehend in your reply. I made myself clear in my message, but will partially quote again for your comprehension, hopefully:

I am 72 years old, and have eaten out frequently all over the state of SC, and, for that matter, NC, Florida, Georgia, and Mississippi, and it is a real rarity for me to see "less than adequate service"; so I'm wondering, can we all see your definitions of "adequate" and "inadequate" service. {END OF QUOTE}

So, if you need to illustrate with specific examples, rather than giving a simple answer, go for it. Knock yourself out.

Yes, I have had the occasional, and very rare, as I said before, bad service. One was at Blowing Rock NC, and the small restaurant there had problems with people not showing up for work. It was just one of those things where a small business has a little bad luck, and was NOT the waitpersons fault that we had to wait 30 minutes to get waited on and served. I gave my usual good tip. About 5 years ago, more or less, at Joe's Crab Shack here in Greenville, took my Son and his wife and at the end of the meal, the waitress had disappeared from view, nowhere in sight, and we were ready to leave, as I don't regard restaurant dining as some sort of exotic experience to be savored and enjoyed after the meal, and I wanted to get outside to smoke a cigarette, so I had to ask the hostess to track down the waitress so we could pay and leave. I coached the waitress on how to deal with end of meal situations, which she did not appreciate, she appearing to be around 30 years of age, and, therefore, wasn't going to listen to some old grouch telling her how to do her job. Last time this happened was at Red Lobster here in Gville, and I talked to the manager the next day and asked him to coach his waitstaff about bringing the check at the end of the meal. Haven't had any problems since that time.

But, Doug, these problems have been so rare over my many years that they are not really worth wasting time discussing. Now, if this sort of thing happened all the time, or very often, anyway, to me, then yes, it would be worth discussing. And so, I wonder why you wrote the article. Why?

Once again:

I am 72 years old, and have eaten out frequently all over the state of SC, and, for that matter, NC, Florida, Georgia, and Mississippi, and it is a real rarity for me to see "less than adequate service"; so I'm wondering, can we all see your definitions of "adequate" and "inadequate" service.

[ reply| Previous in thread ]
Doug from Columbia writes:
9/19/2005 3:46:19 PM
Chuck,

Do you want specific examples? You've never had a bad experience in a restaurant? I appreciate your concern, but I assure you that I am not the kind of person who looks for an excuse to not leave a tip.

If someone does a great job, I reward them generously, and I have even sought out the manager, on a number of occasions, to let him/her know that the person serving me was an asset to the company. Not only have I done this with restaurants, but with other types of businesses, as well.

I give credit where it is due, because it's very hard to find good help--because we, the customers, have grown to accept mediocre service and stopped demanding excellent service--and I want to let the employee know that their efforts did not go unnoticed (positive reinforcement, so the behavior will hopefully continue).

[ reply| Previous in thread ]
Chuck from Greenville writes:
9/19/2005 12:31:59 PM
Left out the question mark, for the grammar police, here is the correction:

Doug:

Can we all see your definitions of "adequate" and "inadequate" service?

[ reply| Previous in thread ]
Chuck from Greenville writes:
9/19/2005 12:27:49 PM
Doug from Columbia writes:
9/19/2005 10:26:46 AM

Giving a tip, when someone has not performed adequately, is nothing more than a handout as far as I'm concerned, and I don't support giving people something for nothing. {UNQUOTE}

Doug, I don't disagree with anything you said, but you are coming across to me as someone who tries very hard to assess the waitpersons as "not performing adequately", so that you will feel justified in tipping less than 15%, or maybe not even at all.

I am 72 years old, and have eaten out frequently all over the state of SC, and, for that matter, NC, Florida, Georgia, and Mississippi, and it is a real rarity for me to see "less than adequate service"; so I'm wondering, can we all see your definitions of "adequate" and "inadequate" service.

[ reply| Previous in thread ]
Joe from Edisto Island writes:
9/19/2005 11:11:02 AM
"...minimum wage (which should be against the law anyway) Why?" asks Haywood

Having been both an employee and an employer, there has been a mutually agreed upon degree of compensation between both parties for services rendered. If the employee agrees to perform the service, the employer agrees to pay a wage.

If there is a perception on the part of either party that the service, or wage, is insufficient to justify the other party's contribution to the exchange, then there should not be an employment relationship between these two parties.

There is no justification for any third party (i.e. gov't's requirement for an arbitrary level of wages to be paid) to input further requirements, only an agreement between the two principals in the transaction.

Please let me reverse your question and ask YOU Haywood, why should a third party demand that there be a blanket minimum compensation for any and every service desired by a party willing to pay?

[ reply| Previous in thread ]
Doug from Columbia writes:
9/19/2005 10:26:46 AM
Giving a tip, when someone has not performed adequately, is nothing more than a handout as far as I'm concerned, and I don't support giving people something for nothing.

If managers were more free-market oriented, the employee who really wanted to do a good job would be rewarded for their work ethic--and it would send a message to all of those would-be wait staffers in the unemployment line. ("Since I don't have any real marketable skills, I had better tighten up if I want that job with Outback Steakhouse!").

Second, the restaurant's perception and customer service value would increase, because more people would leave having had a satisfying experience--and that contributes to repeat business.

Third, the wait staff are rewarded with a nice pocketful of cash, at the end of the night, because of their great job performance.

As you can see, if managers would simply require top-quality service, as a minimum standard, we'd all be better off.

[ reply| Previous in thread ]
James from Bennettsville writes:
9/18/2005 9:58:51 PM
I read your whole statement and I think it was unfair because you singled out Canadians and foreigners and left out a segment of the American population thats all.
I have been to Canada and have eaten there on a few occassions and I always tipped there also. At the time I was there their bills did not show a tip added and their meals cost were very comparative to American meals once you allowed for the difference in the currency exchange.
Maybe you didnt mean it but tip toeing around issues doesnt solve the problem and Americans have been so brow beaten they are reluctant to stand up for fear of being called racist and that is just a cop out and so much B/S in my humble opinion.
Most African Americans working in restaurants do not like waiting on their own people and that is fact in the South.
[ reply| Previous in thread ]
Chuck from Greenville writes:
9/18/2005 3:02:04 PM
All 3 of my daughters have worked as waitresses, Applebees, Cracker Barrel, Shoneys, and all 3 have told me that blacks are the most likely to either undertip or not tip at all.

I'm not particularly fond of the practice of tipping, either, but I always do. I've rarely gotten bad service or bad food, although the problem is rarely, if ever, the problem of the waitress. It's usually the kitchen or someone not showing up for work.

There seems to me to be a certain unfairness about tipping 15% to all waitresses. The Waffle House or Denny's waitress is workng just as hard as the waiter at Staxs Peppermill, but the latter does much better on tips than the former 2.

My usual tip at Waffle House or the like is $5 minimum, and not too likely to be much more than that at Staxs.

But, for you waitpersons out there, here is how you can almost be guaranteed a better than 15% tip - a small glass of ice water and the menu as soon as I sit down. I don't carry cold water in my vehicle, and I want a drink as soon as I can get it.

And don't make me have to get up and refill my iced tea glass.

Don't interrupt me when I am in the middle of saying something to my meal partner.

Making me wait for my bill so I can pay and leave is almost guaranteed to get less than 15%. If you are not in sight when I am ready to pay and leave, I just might leave without paying.

[ reply ]
Bea from Hardeeville writes:
9/18/2005 8:48:44 AM
As for my being very unfair and 'dancing around' - had you bothered to read the very next paragraph, you would have read that I said many people don't tip for various reasons. Perhaps I shoulda said 'excuses' instead of reasons!


Heywood, I was told that Canadians don't tip because the tip is added in; if they meant it as either an add on or because the waiters get full wages - or if they meant it as a polite excuse, I have no idea. I can only tell you what I've been told.

[ reply| Previous in thread ]
Haywood from Greenville writes:
9/17/2005 6:36:09 PM
I've eaten in many parts of Canada and I've never once seen the tip added in.
[ reply| Previous in thread ]
James from Bennettsville writes:
9/17/2005 2:44:34 PM
Not to stir you up but there are a group of Americans that are known for not tipping and I like the way you danced around it but it is very unfair only to name foreigners and Canadians.
I say if you cant afford or do not want to tip eat in places that do not use waiters. I tip a minimum of 15% and up to 30%. I have close ties to people in the profession and have worked for tips myself as a child.
I have had some lousy service but I cannot for the love of myself leave without a tip and I let the proper people know about the service afterwards.
I am about at the point where I think those who wait on you should be paid a salary like others and let the true cost of your food be shown because after all the tip is part of the cost.
[ reply| Previous in thread ]
Haywood from Greenville writes:
9/17/2005 10:14:54 AM
"which should be against the law anyway"

Why?

[ reply| Previous in thread ]
Bea from Hardeeville writes:
9/17/2005 9:54:49 AM
I've worked as a waitress quite a bit; and tips are a way to encourage waitresses to compete to be courteous, efficient, and polite, and for the employer to ensure that his employees are performing. Too many times, someone who receives poor service doesn't complain to management - they simply never return. One rude or incomptent waitress can destroy a small restaurant. A good waitress can more than make minimum wage; she can actually prosper on her tips while the paycheck is a mere addendum. Also, having instant cash helps poorer waitresses and waiters pay their gas and childcare bills rather than having to wait for the first paycheck - sometimes arriving three weeks after they start employment.

Canadians and other foreigners do not normally tip; this is mostly because the tips are already added in to their bill no matter how large or small the party. They receive less enthusiastic service because wait staff knows that they are not likely to tip.

I once went to dinner with a huge party of folk after attending their church. We had a great waitress - she kept all 28 glasses filled and did her checkbacks proficiently and with a smile. When we rose to leave, I threw a $10 on the table. My friend snatched it up and handed it back to me. "We can't tip her," he exclaimed. "She's working on Sunday, and that's against God's law!" "You idiot," I said, "If we weren't here she wouldn't have to work!" I gave the tip personally to the waitress, and never went back to that church. Lots of people don't tip, or tip poorly, for many different reasons.

As a waitress, I have been known to consistently overtip - as well as to leave two cents. I require decent service, and reward superlative service. So am I participating in a ripoff - or complicitous in promoting an unrighteous government invasion? Nope. I'm giving a tip - To Insure Proper Service.

[ reply| Previous in thread ]
1 from Defunct writes:
9/16/2005 10:59:16 AM
I have been a waiter and can attest that the wage paid to them by the restaurant is below minimum wage (which should be against the law anyway).

But tips should not be automatically added to anyones bill (regardless of party size). By so doing, the waitress then has no incentive to 'be nice' or friendly, or in fact to even do her job well! Many in the business world get performance or merit bonus'. To wait staff, they have a chance to get theirs multiple times/day.

Granted you will always have some customers who are never going to tip well, but I believe a good waitress can make a great living by being friendly and doing their job well.

[ reply ]






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